Discussing "Impossible to Possible" with Sue Stevenson

Courage

Pitfalls of Perfection

Grit and Resilience

DAVE

Hi, I'm Dave Underhill and welcome to Speak Up! Beyond causing a staggering number of infections and deaths, the COVID pandemic has also had a significant impact on our brain health. We can all relate to the mental fatigue, brain fog and other symptoms that we deal with every day. A recent study by the Harvard Medical School also suggests that even for people who didn't get COVID, the ongoing stress from the pandemic may have caused brain inflammation, with long term implications for our brain health.

Fortunately for us, our guest today is author, coach, and neurostrategist Sue Stevenson. We're going to talk about her new book, Impossible to Possible, where she takes us on a journey from a high pressure corporate job, to a life threatening diagnosis, and eventual recovery to a happier, healthier, and less stressful life.

The book is both a wake-up call and a how-to guide for anyone interested in taking care of their brain during these challenging times.

Sue, welcome to Speak Up!, and thank you for taking time to talk about your book.

SUE

I'm honored. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity.

DAVE

When I read your book, I thought this has got some great recommendations and some insights and perspectives on how we can navigate these tough times.

So tell us a bit more about your thinking about what's going on today for people.

SUE

A lot of us in the last few years, as you said, have had to push through stuff. When I say pushed through, you find that grit, that resilience to just push through something really, really tough.

DAVE

You know, in your book, in the first part of it, you talk about being on the corporate fast track. Tell me a bit about your role. And when did you start to notice initially some of the impact that that was having on you personally?

SUE

The start point, and I describe in the book a period of about nine years of work, and which I worked for three different companies. And during the early years, I noticed that I became a bit of a perfectionist.

I didn't know that was one of my features, so much so that one of my colleagues had said to me, ‘Sue, we would just love you one day to make a little mistake, just do a little mistake in a presentation.’ And I remember thinking, ‘Oh, I can't do that. I can't deliberately or intentionally make a mistake.’ And he said, ‘Just one, just one.’

So he helped me change a slide. And the next day I went up and I was preparing and I said ‘I cannot do it.’ It was an error. It was a spelling error into a slide, and I took it out and changed it. But that made me realize that, ‘Wow, you have a little bit of a drive here.’ that I was not aware of before.

And so once I got into the HR world, I just I think I was focused on business. A lot of people want to look after people. They want to - they’re very much people pleasers. Well, I was kind of a businesswoman who understood the role of having the best talent in people and making sure they were in the best places and doing the right work.

And I used to get such joy when people would leave my office and they bounced down the corridor going, ‘That was a magic office. I don't know what's happening.’ And I just loved that. And eventually, that's what led me to my current work as an executive coach.

DAVE

And so you were traveling the world, working on huge, important projects. What did that lead eventually to that was like your ‘aha’ moment that something is not right?

SUE

I got a very serious, life threatening diagnosis, which was to do with the brain. And I became a brain nerd, because the first thing you do is research like crazy. You go, ‘Oh, my gosh, I've got to find out everything.’ And so that's why nowadays I'm a brain nerd. I even set up the San Diego Brain Club 12 years ago, just because I was just so obsessed with the brain.

And when my neurosurgeon told me that it was impossible, absolutely impossible to cut - He said, ‘If I cut.’ and he said, ‘I can't cut. I will kill you or lose your sight. Many things will happen. Live with the symptoms.’ And he was pretty mean and dismissive. ‘Just go home. Just live with it. You know, a lot of this mass will either grow and explode or it may disappear.’ And that was it. So I was on my own.

DAVE

You talk about and we've talked about as to how that that ‘impossible’ statement from your neurosurgeon really galvanized you to take action.

SUE

Firstly, I learned eventually how resilient I really was. I hadn't been aware of my level of resilience. And so when, as you said, the word galvanized, when he said the word ‘impossible’, there was something just built up. I go, ‘Right. That is it. I will prove this guy wrong.’ And that push-through mentality that had, I think, contributed to my success and rising up the corporate ladder was also what I then had to use to get through reversing this brain disorder.

So this concept of grit and perseverance and resilience and just saying ‘It's possible. He says it's impossible. I am proving him wrong.’ It is possible to reverse what's happening.

DAVE

Tell us a couple of stories. Who did you talk to? What did you find really valuable about that process of exploration for you to again recover and to reverse what was going on with your brain condition?

SUE

When you travel the world and hardly ever go home, it gets a bit lonely. You know, you kind of lose contact with a lot of your friends. And nowadays, I understand the value of social support in any behavior change or any big endeavor. We need social support. People around us not only to hold us accountable, but to support us, to encourage us, to say ‘you can do it’.

And I was not really using my social systems very well. It took me a while to begin to use those social systems. So I did everything alone. I just experimented. I tried. I thought about all the areas that I could try. And with all my research, I thought, well, you know, you’ve got to sleep. Sleep. You’ve got to sleep. What do you need to do to sleep? Got to eat better. What do you need to do to eat better?

You know, so for example, toxins. I learned that if you have, and I was pretty sure that I had a high level of toxins in my body from the air, from the water, from my environment, from actually growing up on a farm. I learned that this heavy metal in the soil - strontium is a Scottish village as well as a heavy metal. And as I was trying to focus on this, I had to clear out some of those heavy metals. So one strategy I took, I call them neurostrategies because they're to do with the brain, which is to have infrared saunas. And saunas are a fabulous way of just sweating out as many of the toxins as you can. That was one thing I tried.

DAVE

So let's talk a bit more about the neurostrategies, because I know that's part of your book. In your book title too, is really that you're a neurostrategist. So what did you learn about the brain in this exploration process that you're going through that you think might be helpful to people today as they're trying to navigate ongoing stress, medical challenges, etc.?

What should you keep in mind about how to nurture the brain?

SUE

I mentioned three things that were my big learnings. Pay attention to your brain. Notice when there are changes. If you have sensations that you're not used to, or you just have those jaws tightening, the typical signs of stress. But when the jaw tightens and it doesn't relax for nine years, that's a problem.

So pay attention to your brain, to your body. Really be aware of those sensations and journaling those if necessary. The second one, which was probably the biggest of all, was I learned that we can rewire our brain. It isn't the same. It isn't as we're given. We can change that wiring. We have neuroplasticity. And it means that you can believe that if something is not working or you have a behavior that's harming you, you can change it.

You can if you're addicted to something, you can. It's very, very tough. But you can. It's the belief that with the right support, the right information, the right help, if necessary medical, you can change your brain and reverse disease.

DAVE

What was it - a practice or a new behavior that you learned about specifically around the brain that was helpful to you? So give me give me an example of what you do differently now than maybe you used to do.

SUE

Humor. I learned that if you, while you are anxious and then you laugh, the anxiety fades from you. It's very hard to be in two states at the same time, both anxious and laughing. I began to look into humor as a method almost of mindfulness or of changing my brain state, changing my mindset.

And I even went and did a graduate program in humor called Humor Academy. I'm now a Certified Humor Professional. Some people think I'm, CHP is a California Highway Patrol, but no, Certified Humor Professional. Bringing humor into work, bringing humor into everything, even play.

I have really focused on play. We have intentional play in our household all the time. We're lucky we have a puppy who helps us with that play, but we go to the beach and we see how high we can jump just on the sand. We do silly things, but it just again helps with calming down that brain and the vagal system, which is integral to how we how our nervous system works.

DAVE

That's great. You know, when I think of humor, I also think of humanness. And I think especially nowadays, we are trying to keep our humanness, our connection with each other. And so to me, that's a great strategy of finding humor. Whatever your sense of humor is, either personally or with other people, is a way to de-stress, but also to stay connected.

SUE

The other one big thing that I did that I've learned of an activity is photography. I actually took up photography during that period, and now the idea of planning travel to somewhere really with nature in its most awesome form. I've been to Antarctica this year. I've been to Greenland, and you can see the aurora behind me.

And I just relish, you know, savor the awe of the moment, the grandeur of the mountains, the beauty of the iceberg. And that definitely helps me again, keeping my brain, which it is now in a beautiful, joyful place and the outdoors.

DAVE

I think we're hearing a lot about the benefit of getting out in the woods or even into a park or near the water and things like that. And I remember in your book there's dozens, if not more, different strategies that you tried out to help you recover. That to me was like, wow, this is a great story about your recovery. This really is relevant to what people are going through today.

SUE

And on the nature - last night at our brain club meeting, the topic of forest bathing came up. So this is a new one. It's not in my book. And now I'm going to research. Well, what is forest bathing? This technique of keeping our humanness, keeping us grounded and keeping healthy.

DAVE

As I read through the book and as you and I talked about the interview that we're doing today, I got the sense that there are two journeys that you've been on. One is your fast track, medical challenge, and recovery journey that we've been talking about. The second journey really is deciding to write your book Impossible to Possible.

You talked about in the book how you really didn't share what was going on with you during a really tough time in your life personally, professionally. What was it that kicked in eventually for you that said, ‘I want to tell my story’, and what have you learned so far?

Once you published the book, what have you learned about yourself and about using your voice?

SUE

Well, as you said, quite rightly, I didn't want to tell anyone. I really just wanted to close my front door or go into my house and curl up and, I don't know, and not live. But I learned that I wanted to survive. I wanted to get back to, you know, thriving and having a joyful life and a healthy life.

So I only told nine people at first, for quite a long time. It was only nine. And I keep them updated and they became my support group. And then I realized that maybe, you know, there's something about speaking up and maybe I would be helping others if I could just find a way to speak up. And I found an organization who invited me to join their board called The Invisible Disabilities Association.

I began to think about how would I speak up? I did a presentation at the Association of Applied and Therapeutic Humor. So I did one presentation that went over well, and people seemed to be receptive. So when COVID hit and overnight I lost 90% of my work. I said, ‘Now is the time. This is the moment to start writing the book.’

DAVE

I know the book has just recently come out. I loved it. What's been the reaction of people who read the book and reached back out to you?

SUE

It's been so positive. People are saying, ‘Oh my goodness, I resonated with your journey’. That would be one group of people who are women who travel all the time, often with men, who are in maybe an executive team where they're the only woman. That is one group that really resonates with this.

It's a broader audience than I had anticipated. Those people who have been saying to me, ‘Sue, I tried some of your strategies on sleep and I am actually getting better sleep and I feel better.’

DAVE

I saw in the book that there are different stories within the book that people could relate to, whether it be career, whether it be medical, whether it be ongoing stressful situations that they're dealing with. So I saw the same thing that there's lots of good learning for many different audiences in the book.

SUE

And then there's also the learning about what to do when you have maybe a diagnosis of something that's life threatening. You're, one, seeking better social support than I did. Taking a friend to medical appointments. I cannot stress how important that is. Or a spouse. I had a friend that wrote everything down.

When you're in that that state of mind where you're worried about the results of tests or you're concerned about this next medical appointment, have a friend go with you not just for support, but to write notes, because inevitably, when you leave… ‘What did the doctor say?’ ‘What did the surgeon say?’ And we don't always recall it because we have an element of stress and cognitive impairment that may happen while we're so anxious about the diagnosis or the test results.

DAVE

And I'm like, I mentioned to you, I've been there with my brother and my father, too, that they both had a life threatening diagnosis and prognosis. And I went along to make sure that we were both documenting what was being communicated back and forth. So I thought that's an important strategy. I think, again, two things. One is making sure you're capturing all the information that you need to be on your recovery path. And two, it's really building your social network, too.

SUE

It seems like many people I come across who don't have a diagnosis, they have, you know, maybe they're just chronically tired or they're depressed or something has changed and they don't understand what's going on. And maybe their tests are clear and they still don't have a diagnosis. And that's really tough when you don't know what to fix.

So my attitude, I didn't have a diagnosis for a long time, so my attitude was I realized it was inflammation. The body gets inflamed, the brain has inflammation. So what could I do to reduce inflammation? So all my actions were all about inflammation in the body, in the brain.

DAVE

This is great. I know there's a lot more in the book. So let's talk about if people want to get the book, Impossible to Possible, where would they go?

SUE

Well, the good news is it’s on Amazon and the good news is, you see my face and a bright red jacket. You see my face when you find the book on Amazon and I am on Instagram and Facebook. Often I come up under Scottish Sue. I'm known as Scottish Sue, so I can do a wee bit of Scottish. That's my other humor part. And so I can be found on Instagram just with Sue Stevenson or on LinkedIn.

It's probably my primary place.

DAVE

We’ll make sure that people get that information because it's a great book and a great resource for the challenging and stressful times that we're in. So Sue, thank you again. It's been an honor to talk to you and to hear your story once again.

SUE

And thank you so much, Dave. I really appreciate you giving me this opportunity and it did fill me with a bit of anxiety because again, sharing the stories is tough, but I think it's important.

So the journey is never over. That's the other thing. It is just never over. So I am continuously trying to improve, pay attention, improve my brain. And I never give up.

Leading Across Cultures with Michael Fors, Ph.D.

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Working With the UN in Afghanistan

How Leaders Can Bring People Together

How to Engage People in Long-Term Change

Navigating Corporate Cultures

The Power of Storytelling

Michael Fors

There was a culture but it needed to be improved diversity really made us stronger, diverse backgrounds, diverse ideas, diverse religions. Talk about this being more of a marathon than a sprint.

Dave Underhill 

Hi, I'm Dave Underhill and welcome to Speak Up! Sometimes it feels like the problems we're facing today are so complex that it's hard to tell if we're making any progress in solving them. Our guest believes we do have what it takes to tackle these challenges, if we can work across the political, cultural, and professional boundaries that often keep us apart. For the past 30 years, MF has dedicated his time and energy to growing leaders who can bridge those boundaries. He's currently in charge of Boeing's leadership development. And prior to this, he was in charge of leadership and employee development efforts at Microsoft and Intel, reaching over 100,000 employees across the globe. Outside of his corporate roles, Michael partnered with the UN to develop leaders in war-torn countries like Afghanistan and South Sudan. With a background like this, I thought it would be interesting to talk to him about his experiences with the UN, his approach to developing global leaders, and what today's leaders need to do to bring people together.

DU

Michael, great seeing you again, thank you for joining us on this episode of Speak Up!

MF

Thanks, Dave. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

DU

As we've worked over the years, I've really been impressed by the work that you've done globally, in the corporate world, with the UN. You obviously have a passion for developing people, but also really working on a fairly large scale globally. Where did that passion come from? As far as working with different cultures?

MF

Yeah, when I think about it way back to the beginnings when I was a child growing up, my grandparents had given me a projector that contained slides of different countries from around the world. It came with a companion booklet. And I'd sit for hours in my room, projecting onto the wall, sitting on the hardwood floor and just learning about different countries around the world. And it just made me want to go visit and have adventures in all these places that that exist in the world.

DU

As you went through school, like elementary school, or high school or college. Did that interest continue? And if it did, how did you pursue it? Maybe academically?

MF

Yeah, well, I was always seeking out books to read on different cultures and different adventure books and people traveling around the world and getting to explore and really try out all these different things. And, you know, really connect with people around the world. I think, you know, one thing I noticed was, we have a lot in common, more in common than we don't. But it's these differences. They really make us strong and give us strength. So I continued that throughout school, I had a chance to study some foreign languages. I studied French, I went and studied abroad in in Provence in France. And that was a great chance to really get to know Europe and and France in particular. But I traveled around to many different countries - in 12 different countries during that summer, after I finished my study abroad program. And that just made me want to travel the world even more.

DU

Yeah. And then how about the part around it? You mentioned people as you're going through all that, you're really curious about the people and how they developed into who they are and how they interact with each other. In school, when you think about that, when did it click in for you that this might be a career or a profession that you could pursue?

MF

Yeah, well, I really liked how people with diverse ideas and opinions and backgrounds came together to to solve problems. And I learned that early on in school. As I was going through,  you know, studying and studying abroad, then I had a couple of experiences that led me to really want to take this to more of a global level and make it more of a profession. One thing was I, I worked in summers during college as a tour guide, taking people up into Canada, to Banff and Lake Louise and Jasper with Princess Cruises and Princess tours. And that was a really great chance to start working more globally. You know, just interacting with Canada and different people there. And what they had me do was start to train people and say, hey, you know, could you train new tour guides? Could you train people who could really have the global mindset and go and travel around the world as part of the company? And so I started thinking, hey, maybe this training thing is interesting because I love education. If I can do it globally, that combines my interests in differences and travel, and really getting to explore cultures. And so that's what led to graduate school and led to more of a global professional career.

DU

Sounds like you had a great opportunity from an early age to really find your path. And to have these experiences where you got a sense of, Wow this whole global thing might be an area I want to pursue. How did you first get started in the corporate world, bringing your passion for the global world, but also for developing people?

MF

Yeah, well, after finishing a Master's on the East Coast, I moved to Arizona and was doing a PhD at Arizona State University, and I had an opportunity through your professional association, to make a contact at Intel Corporation and had started an internship there. That led to a full time job, and ultimately led to leading a lot of management, leadership development programs and leading Intel University. And through that experience, I was able to travel the world a lot, even more than I had in the past. All different places, Asia, Middle East, Europe, Central South America, in leading management, leadership development programs. And then one thing I decided to do was to bring together all the training people at Intel from around the world under my organization. So we could have one vision for developing the people of the company. And that was really a chance to work with people from all different cultures around the world and see how diversity really made us stronger in  diverse backgrounds, diverse ideas, diverse religions, diverse thought. And we we really came together as a much stronger organization. And that allowed us to serve Intel, and do even greater philanthropy and charity work outside of Intel.

DU

So as you've gone from Intel, to Microsoft, and now to Boeing, how have you gone about learning about those cultures when you first started those new positions, so that you could be effective working within the different cultures?

MF

Yeah, it really is a study in understanding what the values are of the company and what's actually practiced, and then how it plays out globally around the world. You know, for one at Intel, there was a culture when I started there, but it really was looking to be revamped. And our CEO, Andy Grove, wanted to better clarify the culture. And we had, they had concepts like constructive confrontation. And it was meant to be confrontation of issues. And Andy our CEO had written a Fortune article about this, but it wasn't being practiced well within the company. In fact, the term constructive confrontation was being misused as a way to personally attack someone. To stand someone up and really, personally attack them. So what we did was really work to redefine what we meant by the culture and values at Intel. And so that they could really be a layer of ... any diverse person around the world being able to work in that that company culture. And so we had a certain set of values. We wrote observable behaviors for them. We redefined concepts like constructive confrontation, that it was meant to be positive and direct and objective, and timely. And so so then it allowed people a chance to see how these practices could could be really used in the workplace daily. And then as you traveled around the world, you could see how they could apply even given cultural differences. They were a common culture that we could all snap to.

DU

How about then the shift to Microsoft, what was similar there? But what was different there about their culture and, and how you learn to operate?

MF

Yeah, Microsoft was interesting. I think Intel was more, a little more process driven a little more, you know, disciplined and rigid, partly because it's a manufacturing company and microprocessors require it. At Microsoft, it was a little bit more open and loose - more of a software development, creative environment, you know, innovation. And it was global. So it was taking into account quite a few different developers from around the world and sales and consulting services people around the world. And so they were very much in tune with how Microsoft technology and the Microsoft culture could play out in different countries around the world. And I had a set of consultants that I worked with, that I helped lead, that were really digital transformation consultants. And they they really were great at understanding different regions and cultures of the world. How technology would play into it and how Microsoft's values and culture could be could be utilized in doing work around the world.

DU

And then Boeing. Obviously, we think of it as a global company, but a very different culture that I'm sure Intel or Microsoft have.

MF

Yeah, it's been more of an American culture within Boeing, because that's where most of the employees live. You know, in major sites like in Puget Sound, or St. Louis or Philadelphia, you know, different other sites like that. It's the largest exporter, but it has huge number of customers globally. But the the employee population base is almost all American-based. Now, the company is expanding. So it's had a presence in the UK and Australia, starting to expand more in India, Poland, in Brazil. And so it's really learning to become more of a global company. You know, back at Intel, when I was running Intel U, we had a group of cross- cultural people doing training, and really helping the company and its employees understand how to work globally. Boeing is just now getting there and starting to stretch its wings and teach it to people how to really work better globally. And how the Boeing culture, corporate culture, then plays out in different countries around the world.

DU

We've worked on projects that were longer term, what might we'll call - you used word transformations. 2, 3, 4 years long.  Whether it's a digital or organizational transformations, and sounds like Boeing's going through that, too. So as you work with leaders, and you develop leaders in these different companies, what do you talk to them about, as far as how do they keep their people engaged? How do they use their leadership voice to keep people involved in these long term change efforts?

MF

Yeah, you know, I'd left Microsoft to go to Boeing for a new challenge. And it was because Boeing was really digitally transforming all aspects of its company. It's digitizing, engineering, manufacturing, supply chain, all these major entities at once. And so what we're, what I'm helping lead is that transformation around to new tools, new processes, new training, even roles are transforming. And so we talked about this being more of a marathon than a sprint. We have contracts that are 30 years to help create new digitized tools and processes. So while it's a very long, ongoing effort to keep upskilling, the culture and the people. So when we first talked about it being a marathon, not a sprint, and then we let people know the different elements that need to play into this. So definitely, there's new technology, new work processes that need to happen.

Roles will change and leaders need to evolve the culture, because the work itself will be evolving and changing, more digitized, more use of data, more global. So really helping people prepare for all these changes in the way things will be digitized and automated. And so it's really helping bringing people along on the journey to understand what we're doing, why we're doing it, how there'll be new tools and processes, how the culture will shift, how roles will shift. And helping people see that bigger picture so that they're inspired to to achieve the vision for the company, but also grow themselves personally, because it's a great way for them to stay fresh, and to develop their careers. And keep moving along with this flow that we have going. So you really want to talk about what's in it for them for their career, and help them understand the big picture and why they're a part of a really big deal. There's a sense of urgency, and there's a vision out there that they're we're all looking to achieve together.

DU

You know, as I coach different executives that are in similar situations, one of the things that we talked about is storytelling and how important that is. What's been your experience? Or how do you talk to executives about the importance of storytelling and how they can use that, to keep people engaged on this long journey, this long transformation? 

MF

Yeah, I think it's absolutely critical. You know, it just doesn't come to life for individuals, if you talk about it more in an esoteric way where it's, it just doesn't feel like it's a part of them, or there's no story that they can relate to. So if leaders can tell stories about small quick wins that we're getting or you know, steps, big steps toward the future, and how that's impacting people in their lives. You know, real people around being able to develop products and services differently, how careers have been grown, people get promoted. Tell tangible stories, real life stories of parts of the company where this is happening. It goes a long way because then they think, "Well, I want to be a part of that. I want to do that." You know, that sounds really great. I like and see how that impacted these other people. And I think we can create that where I am too.

DU

Yeah, that's great. Those examples, I think, really have impact because they can, people can see how other people like them are engaged in the process, but also seeing some of the benefits of being engaged.

MF 

Yeah. And they can see that it's difficult.  It's not easy here, there are going to be bumps in the road. But that's all part of it, too. If leaders can convey the progress and The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly, and talk about problems that do exist, people can get their creative juices flowing to try to help solve those problems. And so it's not always rosy. We don't want to paint an overblown picture of how wonderful everything is, when in reality, we want people to engage, be creative and dig in and help solve these problems for the future. Then they feel more of a sense of ownership in really what they're creating.

DU

That's a great point. And one of the things that came to mind, as you were talking is sometimes when I'm working with more technical people, their comfort level around sharing personal stories about themselves, is not there. Right? Yeah, they're used to kind of driving towards the numbers, driving towards the KPIs or OKRs, or whatever the measurement tools are. Give me an example of how in your case, how have you used personal stories, to highlight a leadership principle or something that you want to get across to people?

MF 

Yeah, you know, I'm just thinking, we were just telling stories about how we're digitally transforming parts of the company today, and how it can make such a big difference in people's lives. And one of the things we're doing is really - how you do engineering differently, using a digital twin or using model based engineering. And, you know, talking about how, when I first came in, I didn't understand it, I didn't know what it was, or how it worked. And, you know, I've been at Boeing four years. So I'm kind of a baby, most people have been there 20-30 years, or more.  Then, you know, it's really a story about my journey of how I came in and tried to understand, couldn't understand it, needed some help. And then once I was able to understand more and more, I could help others understand.

And so now, I totally get that we want to have a digital thread all the way through engineering, into manufacturing and out to the customer. And, it was a way for me to really say, hey, now I understand the vision, I'm starting to be able to help others see how data can be used for the first time ever, all the way through the process. And that's why we're helping people learn data literacy. That's why we're working with execs and then engineers to understand that, but then also working on a project that connects the dots called Development Excellence. That helps create this new framework and process flow for how we manage new product development. It's all about safety and quality and data all the way through. And I wasn't able to connect those dots initially. I was just explaining to people, it's complex enough where I couldn't put the pieces together. But then once I got it, I could start to help others see the vision and where we were headed. And tell my story that it's okay to not understand always and it's not that you're dumb, you just need more time and a chance to dig in and understand better.

DU

Yeah. And so what was the reaction to that story from the folks that were in the group that you're telling that story to?

MF 

Well, you know, there was a lot of head nodding. I think they understood that, they'd been on a journey like that in the past, at some point at Boeing, or at another company. And they understood that, "Hey, maybe it was ambiguous and complex, and I didn't quite get it. And I had to overcome that and learn." So I think there was a bit of an understanding more at a personal level, like, oh, yeah, it's not just all technical. It's also cultural and people and an understanding what we're trying to do from a strategy perspective and how all those pieces come together. But then once you get there, and you overcome that learning curve, you can start to see things that you never thought you could, and start to connect dots on "Oh, this, this initiative connects to that." You start to connect the people and the culture and the process and the tools and different programs and projects together and how they all relate and play forward. So then it becomes more like an epiphany and enlightening. But it's a journey, and it's not easy to get there sometimes. I think people started to understand that at a personal level.

DU

Yeah. Now that's excellent. And what came to my mind as you were talking about that is, one, it helps to connect people to you as a person and to each other as people. But that learning challenge that they were going through - it's also that it sets the stage for them to have their own insights. Or maybe a new perspective around that challenge or the transformation that you're going through. So it's nice that you can combine those two. It's like it's a personal connection, but also it helps them with a business insight, perhaps.

MF 

Yeah, it's good to be human, you know. We all go through this, and we can't just be, you know, robots or zombies, you know, only focus on technology and metrics and schedule. There's more to it than that. There's collaboration, there's being human, there's being a leader that shows vulnerability. And it's okay. It helps others feel like, "Hey, I can be a little vulnerable too. I need to learn also - I've gone through some tough times learning some new complex things." And you become able to collaborate better, because you're more human together.

DU

One of the things I remember from working with you at Intel and Microsoft is that from time to time, you would almost disappear for a while. And when you came back, and we were working together on a project, you'd say, "Oh, I just got back from Dubai. I just got back from Afghanistan. I was in the Sudan for a while." And you'd mentioned that that was really part of your work with the UN. And I was just very much impressed by that. Both at the time and commitment you took away from the corporate world to do that. But also from the work that you were doing there. So talk a bit about how you first got involved with the UN. And then what are some of the things that you were doing for them? What was your role?

MF 

Sure, yeah, I actually went through a leadership program in Seattle I had been nominated for called Leadership Tomorrow. And the joke, there was, "Oh, you don't have to be a leader today or ever, because it's always tomorrow." It was, it was a really good program. And they really encouraged us to find some way to give back. And most people in the Seattle area, were giving back to local Seattle charities, which I thought was great. But for me, I wanted to play on my global passion. And so I met some people who worked at the UN in New York at a conference and I said to them, "Look, you know, I don't have a lot of time to volunteer, (I was leading Intel University at the time.) but if I did, I'd want to come volunteer with you." And we just kind of let that lay. And then they followed up and said, "Let's, let's explore what we could do together." So we started out, providing some training to ambassadors from developing countries in New York City at UN headquarters there. And one thing led to another, suddenly, we were putting - Intel was supporting it. So they supported me doing this. We put Wi-Fi in UN headquarters, and we gave Kofi Annan a laptop back at the day, again, as a donation. We started doing more leadership development training beyond the ambassadors from developing countries.

And then when 9-11 happened, we decided to take our gig on the road. Because we really felt like the people in New York were developing, and they were, they were also a bit more privileged. We wanted to help post-conflict countries. And so we started working with leaders from countries that had been through war. It started with Afghanistan after 9-11. And had a really long running civil development program on leadership development and went 14 years. It was really the longest running development program for Afghanistan. And had a chance to then to travel over a couple times a year to go work with the Afghan leaders. They were leaders of government, nonprofit, and some business leaders as well, trying to regrow their economy and their culture. And so it was a chance to give back I think, a lot of what I learned and have a passion around leadership development.

And so once we did that - it was seen that that was a very successful program, so could we replicate it? So we used it in Iraq, for example. And then also in South Sudan. I actually went into South Sudan when the civil war was going on. I wasn't sure I should do that. But you had to have $2,000 in cash strapped to your body in case you needed to bribe your way out. The State Department said they wouldn't help me - they couldn't help me. And so I took out a lot of life insurance, I had two little kids, and went in there and worked with the leaders of the government for for about 10 days. So you know, I think the lesson was you can still do a lot from afar. You don't have to go right into a war zone. But however, you know, you want to give back you can and should. The quick kind of story out of the South Sudan situation was my partner who is on the ground there with the United Nations Development Program - is name was Francis - was targeted and killed two weeks after I left. He'd been a great partner for me and a big supporter of what we were doing. So it can be dangerous. But anyway, all this to say I wanted to give back and the UN was, has been, the place to do that. I serve as a chairman of the board for a part of the UN called UNITAR now, and still continue to develop programs and leadership and entrepreneurship, innovation. You know, we work a lot with women in technology to grow them as leaders. And so a lot of our work now is expanded into Africa and as well as the Middle East.

DU

I'm sure all those experiences were so different and so rich from just a connection with people in different cultures, but also helping them to like you were saying, rebuild their countries. What would you say the biggest difference is or was between the corporate world and working on the UN side?

MF 

Yeah, I mean, in the corporate world, you're able to harness a vision and strategy and execute on it with your resources that you have at hand.  Or you can get. You have a budget. In those (UN) cases, it's much more spanning across society to bring resources together and make things work. So governments are involved, multinationals like the UN or the World Bank are involved or the IMF. And then you've got nonprofits who are involved. Universities that are involved. You know, even we brought in professional associations of people who have expertise in engineering or IT to get them involved. And so and then the corporate world, of course, so it's it's a matter of spanning boundaries to pull people together across society. Because it's a, you know, complex, multi-pronged problem that you're dealing with trying to rebuild a country, its economy, its health, its water, its food, housing. How do you go after those multiple problem areas, when you then need to bring together a large number of resources to resolve them, and have an impact? So I think it gets more complex than within a corporation. It can be done and the resources are out there. It just takes really spanning the boundaries and bringing it all together

DU

As you worked with the leaders in those situations. Knowing that there are cultural differences, what were some of the things that you tried to pass along to them about how they could lead those, like you're saying, those broad scale efforts in their country?

MF 

Yeah, I think there's some common elements of leadership that really fit and work everywhere. And so that was really the message - was what are these common elements that you can pull together to make to become a successful leader, regardless of situation. Knowing that it has to be applied into the context, right, it has to play out into a different culture and context. And, you know, one thing I think that was important is that the differences can still all be respected, you know - their tribal differences, their religious differences. It's okay, if people have a deeper level of many different differences in their world. What we're trying to do is, you know, take a layer on top of it that everyone can agree to, to develop people for good or whatever the cause is.

And a leader can help create that culture and that set of resources and that vision and that strategy to execute. On top of all the deeper differences that don't need to be touched, but can all still be respected. And in that way, people can come together in a common way, and go after a vision together to help humankind and help the world, without needing to disrupt any of their differences that they have, at a deeper level. And in fact, those deeper level differences create these different perspectives that cause diversity, and come up with better ideas when collaborating together across those differences. So helping them understand that layer of what they were creating, to make a difference, is really important. And then we can get more into, you know, the specific leadership system that I have, which are elements that make it make a leader really strong and effective.

DU

Yeah, well, why don't why don't we go there? Because I know that you talked about a framework that you've developed, based on all your years and experiences in the corporate world, but also globally with the UN. So maybe just talk about the top three things that you try to get across or you think are most important in your framework, like, what do leaders need to do in today's world?

MF

Well, first of all, I think a lot of the world's problems are come about due to poor leadership. You know, people are in it for the wrong reasons. They are in it for their own power and glory, or money, depending on if there's corruption involved. And really, they should be in it to serve people. They serve organizations and people, so it's more about servant leadership. And you know, there was an ambassador at the UN who I got to be good friends with, who always said, if the world's problems can be solved there are plenty of resources around. There's just not - there aren't leaders who come forward with the right vision that can pull together the resources to make it happen. Because it's all there. It's just, you know, do we have the will? And do we have the right leadership with vision to pull it together. And that always really resonated with me, because I do think it's true.

MF 

I think that great things can happen in the leadership system, specifically, and the UN chose us the system as a foundation for their own leadership development, developing people within the UN. It really combines elements that people as leaders try to learn over time, by the seat of their pants. You know, like, there's a cultural component, they try different things, and it fails. And it takes years and maybe they'll figure out how to develop a positive culture. You know, strategic planning - they may try some ways, and it's, again, seat of the pants, and it fails and doesn't quite work.

What I tried to convey are 10 elements that work together, like the pistons of a car, and each one needs to work effectively. And then they all need to work in unison, to really create a system where a leader can drive a high performing organization that sets a vision, strategy and accomplishes it. And so it really pulls together things like strategic planning, the right level of governance, structure for the organization, really important with process flows, the right leaders in the organization. They shouldn't just be legacy leaders, they need to be leaders for that cause - for what you're trying to accomplish. Culture becomes important. And then the portfolio of products and services become very important. What do you really producing? Partnerships, financials, and then results in metrics and then a level of personal leadership. And this is where a lot of leadership programs focus, right? It's on who you are, as a personal leader, what's your style? How do you get better as a leader? Well,  that is a component of it all. But if you're not getting, you know, steps one through nine right, then you can try to improve yourself as a personal leader all you want. But you've got to get this whole system humming along - all these pistons of the engine performing together. So it's really 10 elements that are more prescriptive - that come together to really help a leader create a high performing organization.

DU

Wow, that's amazing. And I can see clearly that, that metaphor, or those 10 elements, it really came from all of your background, corporate, UN, etc, that you've seen those common elements that need to be in place. So it's more of a system and a framework than it is personal personal leadership development.

MF 

Yeah, it really is a culmination, like you say, of all my experiences, I've been working on this for decades, actually. Yeah, it finally came together and kind of coalesced. I could distill it down into these 10 elements. And you teach people how to do each element, and then how they all need to play together and integrate these to be really successful.

DU

Yeah, that's great. Well, thank you. Again, this has been inspiring, enlightening. You and I have known each other, but I've learned a lot just from our conversation here. Part of my vision is to reach out to people like you. Leaders who are sharing their voice, using their leadership voice to make an impact. If people want to get in touch with you, what would be a good place for them to reach out to?

MF 

Ah, yeah, I mean, LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn. So that's easy. That's probably the fastest and easiest and people can find me out there and be glad to connect and you know, meet with people offline support their careers however I can. And you know, talk about great ideas for the future the world or their their personal career development.

DU

No, thank you. And good luck, continue with all the great work that you're doing.

MF 

Thank you and good luck with the series and in all your great work. It's been so amazing being able to connect with you over the years, you know, Intel and then we found each other with Microsoft. And it's been, we've been on this life journey together, and I really appreciate it. The Journey - personally and professional.

Growing Leaders with Dr. Magan Lewis

AUDIO ONLY:

Dave Underhill: Hi, I'm Dave Underhill, and welcome to speak up. Dr. Magan Lewis is a visionary leader, innovator, and champion of women in science, technology, engineering, and math. We're here to talk with Magan and learn from her experience and gain her insights about how leaders can speak up and make an impact.

Magan, welcome. You've talked a lot about how from an early age, you wanted to be a leader who would feed the world. Where did that passion and that focus come from?

Dr. Magan Lewis: Great question, and I'm happy we're able to discuss it today. So I grew up in a small town in North Dakota. And I was grateful to have two parents that were educators, a music teacher and a science teacher. And so I was the one that was raised in my dad's science lab. I remember pleading my first science fair experiment at age four, and swabbing, you know, water fountains, but also I started recognizing the passion around agriculture in the community. So when I finally got the chance to compete at regional state international science fairs, my projects were agriculture focus, I work with farmers on sugar beets, and corn and soybean and a bunch of different crops.

And yet you asked me about the passion around feeding the the growing population, it really stemmed from you remember those visible memories, I was 17 years old sanding into a cornfield. And I was so excited because I had my little test plant right there. And the farmer looked at me and said, "Hey, Magan, you're gonna make a difference in agriculture someday." And I just took that as inspiration. I know, it's just words. But those words for that 17 year old were so powerful, that I took that in a ran all the way through school, just trying to make a difference, feed the growing population. And most importantly, give back. I mentioned that my parents were teachers, they were also community trailblazers, my mom still is today. And so they taught us at a very young age, the importance of treating everyone with respect and kindness, but most importantly, giving back to the communities that we live in. And so I could talk for hours and days about the background. But it really stemmed from my upbringing, and just having those opportunities to explore.

DU: Obviously, with your parents, and you mentioned the person who gave you that feedback in the field at 17, who were some other people that really provided guidance and support along your journey.

DML: Every interaction matters, make every interaction count, something that my dad and my grandma told me, told me growing up. You know, my dad was one of my big mentors growing up, he always pushed me he challenged me. And when he passed unexpectedly, in 2013, it was really devastating. And I had to get out of that darkness and into brightness, again, which was hard to do, but was doable. So what I'm trying to say is that mentors change, in my experience.

I actually refresh my mentor list, I have a core five, I refresh it every year. Because I'm really big on making sure I have the right mentors at the right stage of my career, or my schooling.

One of my core mentors was one of my first supervisors going into industry, and just teaching me not only the basics of scientific principle, but teaching me the power of being a servant leader. And the power of bringing empathy to the plate. Sometimes, as scientists, we get too analytical. And we get really excited about our research. But it doesn't translate to the community, it doesn't translate to people that it actually impacts. And so this supervisor was a core mentor, just always just keeping me grounded - boots on the ground. The power of just being there with the people just going through experiences together. So empathetic leadership is really critical.

Now I'm going to switch to academic things. So industry is really important. But let's go focus on the academic piece. I was 18 years old, going to North Dakota State University. I got assigned an advisor and I can tell you to this day, I still send letters and talk to that advisor and his wife because they had that big of an impact on my life. And I was I had the honor of celebrating his 50 years of teaching and education at NDSU. And so it's about making every interaction count. But most importantly, strengthening those connections and becoming a better person and a better version of you. So I still have the academic ties too.

And another critical leader, and especially at Corteva, has been a female leader that I've had, who's really challenged the status quo. And she's taught me to be bold. She's taught me to be myself. And she's taught me to never lose the grounding of who I am and who I want to be. But, it will really be, when you get to the top of your mountain, if you get anything out of this entire discussion - when you get to the top of your mountain be sure to turn around and pull your team up with you. I think that there's power in sharing ideas, leveraging and treating mentorship as a two way street. And I just wanted to end with that is that mentorship is way more powerful than I think we could even ever imagine.

DU: I love that two way street analogy that you use, because it really is giving back based on what you've been able to accomplish, because you've been helped along the way. So let's talk about Corteva - Global Technology Adoption Lead. What a cool title and and role, I imagine. Tell us a bit about what you and your team are doing. What are some of the key innovations that you're working on? .

DML: It's a dynamic role - just recently changed - got that Plus One added. I'm super grateful, because you'll hear the Plus One and you'll say, "Oh, that's a perfect fit for Magan!" So yes, Global Technology Adoption Lead. I get the opportunity to work with amazing scientists, engineers, leaders across the world, on enhancing data quality through data collection. So we really look at finding those tools that can enhance operational excellence, efficiency, data quality for scientists. And then if we're lucky, it then transfers over to the customer base.

I've had the opportunity to work with amazing regulatory, legal, safety specialists, because we're worldwide. It's not just North America. And when you think about drones and the complexity with drone imaging, drone product application, you can about imagine my network is quite large. But what I can say is that it's also one of my favorite parts of the role is interacting with new people. Interacting and bringing the right people into the right room at the right time. Another area that I picked up too is around university and academic engagement lead. So now I get the opportunity to strengthen that across the world. Work with professors, advisors, students, and really start thinking from a crop protection mindset. What can we do to help, you know, recruit, inspire our future generation. So it's really about, again, bringing the right people to the right table at the right time. And I get to work with amazing, amazing individuals every single day.

DU: It has to be fascinating to work with such a wide variety of people. What do you do to bring that broad spectrum of stakeholders together around an idea, a technology or a vision? What have you found that works for you?

DML: The secret sauce, the unpeeling of the orange, right? I want to say that I was not perfect. If you would have asked me 10 years ago, you know … through my experience, I've been a direct supervisor, I've led hundreds of amazing, talented scientists throughout the company. I celebrated 10 years at Corteva on March 5. I've had the opportunity to be that hands on to many direct reports, tons of contract workers reporting in, boots on the ground leader.

And about a year ago, I transitioned into individual contributor, because I had established leadership skill set according to leaders in our organization. So they wanted to see me flourish on the influential leadership skill set. And so your question is perfect, right? Because now I have to inspire and influence so many different people in the hundreds, every single day to follow vision or my strategy or some of Magan's thoughts and ideas. And, but they don't report to me, I'm that dotted line now. And it's, it's a different switch. But it's been really impactful and beneficial.

Because what works for me is really thinking about, you know… in technology space, individuals get caught with fun, shiny technology. The concern with this is that it's really hard to drive where does this help us operationally, from operational excellence? What is the So What? And so one of my secret sauces in the tech space is innovation design thinking. Move away from the concept of fun and flashy, and start focusing on the business case, the ROI, what's in it for me, what is the So What? Because that will enhance your traction. And also that will enhance where you're going to go with a project. So by turning that mindset on of innovation design thinking, I come into a room with an idea, or you know, change a process. And I'm able to bring the team in, by showing them that, hey, we're not here just for this shiny technology. This is the So What, this is the value and the potential this technology can bring to your organization, can bring to your teams, and most importantly, can bring to our communities worldwide.

So number one, innovation design thinking, number two, you're probably picked up on my delivery, the power of storytelling. I think way too many professionals underestimate the power of storytelling. The ability to not get caught in the technical piece of it to say, hey, according to the product lineup and the pipeline of X, Y and Z …you're going to lose people. But if you set the stage of what you see, your vision, your strategy, how you came about it - you know, maybe it was a cloudy day,72 degrees - the power of storytelling leaves a vision in the audience.

And so that, with that embeds getting to know your stakeholders, your audience. Having adaptive communication styles. I use different styles. If I'm talking to farmers, scientists, investors, other companies, startups, I have to pivot. I'm still Magan. But they all have different needs and different wants and different ways of communicating. And so innovation design thinking, the power of storytelling is so critical. And embedded in that is adaptive communication and negotiation skills. And I think those are the main elements. If I think back of what I've learned in areas that I failed and picked up myself, and said, "I need to go read a negotiation book, I need to get better and get better tactics built into my skill set". But those are the main elements that I can think of today.

DU: One of the things you mentioned too is a lot of different professional groups that you interact with, in agriculture, like many of the STEM professions, are male dominated. So, you do a lot of mentoring. You've experienced a lot of things. As you mentor women, young women who are entering these STEM fields. What guidance do you give about how to speak up so that they can make the impact that they want to make?

DML: Good question, and you know that I'm super passionate in this space. So thank you for asking. I start out - this may seem simple. And this is one of my humility moments of you know, you get done with PhD … I got so excited. Not many know this, but my husband left his full-time job. He has a master's in business operations. He's our finance relocation specialist. He left his full time job to be a stay at home dad, because of the difficulty of female leadership in agriculture, and especially large agriculture corporations. And so when you think about it, he left his full time job to be stay at home dad to activate and to launch my career. So for that, I'm truly grateful.

Now, launching the career means that I lived I breathe, I mean, full transparency, I'm not going to share the hours I started out in industry, it was super high. It was really unbalanced. And I felt that I had to - this is a fun humility moment. But I walked in as one of only like two female breeders in this room of hundreds, hundreds, right. And so I felt this need to adapt, to be that chameleon. I felt like I had to walk like them and talk like them. You know, like when I see them, the other male breeders and counterparts, even though they really didn't value my opinion, but I came in this imposter syndrome phase where I felt that I just had to fit in. Well, I was pregnant at the time. And one situation that really resonates with me as we were walking cornfields at all hours of the day. And you know, you I just said I could keep up with everybody. In this one cornfield, specifically in North Dakota, had really deep irrigation tracks, and I was about eight months pregnant at the time. And I felt I could keep up with everybody, take notes, analyze the germ plasm, which is the fun corn plants that we see in the field, and take notes on that. And what ended up happening is I pushed myself to a limit where I actually ended up falling in an irrigation ditch, right on my stomach. As a new mom, one of the most terrifying and scary experiences, I could even tell you riding to the hospital that evening, and getting hooked up, and one of the most, you know, you'd have those moments that you just realized, like, "Hey, okay, what's important in life, life is short" is when I finally heard my daughter's heartbeat on the monitor. Um, you know, sigh of relief, but also just a good reflection moment. I was kind of sad at myself for taking it that far. But what it really taught me is that you need to be yourself, you need to be the best version of yourself. And when you are your best version, others around you will activate their best version.

I always leave every mentorship discussion with a question. It's like, “who did you inspire today? Who are you bringing up on the top of the mountain with you? And who are you going to champion?” One of the biggest mistakes I've seen in my 10 years - 10 years of industry - It's been fun. I see individuals say that "I'm an IDE diversity inclusion equity champion." When in reality, they're a cheerleader. They're not a champion. They're not an advocate. How are they pulling those women and aspiring women leaders in the company up? Are they building them into succession plans? Are they identifying new opportunities? Are they growing them? Are they getting paid the same as their male counterparts? Something as simple as a pay scale difference and understanding. I get really passionate about this area. And so I teach my mentees that you always need to push and you always need to challenge the status quo, because we can do better. And this is an opportunity to do better. And it starts with being their most authentic and genuine self. And then most importantly, who are they championing? Not cheerleading, but who are they advocating for and championing today so that we can build this successful and sustainable pipeline.

That is … the biggest gap is I don't see this pipeline being built. And how can we start building that pipeline at all levels, because I see amazing talent across the world. I had the opportunity to mentor somebody in Ecuador last year, and, you know, really inspire her to go back and get her PhD. We have talent, we have amazing women talent globally now. We just have to do a better job of making sure that that pipeline, and I can't do it alone, right. And so this is like building that network to ensure that we have the success for future generations to come. That we are set, and that we will build this pipeline that will bring diversity, diversity of thought, ideas, opinions at the right table, at the right time with the right people. And so that's what I do is I try to inspire them just to go get it and be themselves.

DU: I was working with a female technical leader, coaching her for about six months. And as we were wrapping up, we talked with her boss, who was at the executive level. And one of the comments he made was the progress that she had made in speaking up at the executive and the board level. And one of the comments he made was “What I've learned, that I didn't know, is that women really feel this hesitation to speak up when it's a male dominated environment. And I know you've probably been in a lot of those. What what advice would you have for people who are in that moment? And are deciding "Do I speak up or not speak up?"

DML: Before you go into a presentation, it is so critical that you just don't build your you know, "What am I going to present?” Just start from the beginning. Before you even start your PowerPoint I want you to write down ‘Who are your stakeholders?’ ‘Who is the key audience that you are presenting to?’ Number two. And three, ‘What is the So What? What are you going to get out of this presentation, and what is your company or organization going to get out of this presentation?’ You need to identify those building blocks. Otherwise, it is just wasted breath.

DU: You've got a LinkedIn page. Give me a one or two more places where people can reach out and find out more about who you are what you're doing.

DML: Absolutely. So LinkedIn, I am, you know, about making every interaction count. I told you, I want to inspire at least one person a week. And I started Fun Fact Friday. And what I can say is if my followers are listening, "Thank You!" I get about 20 or 30 private messages from bump backs so far, and they give me ideas. They give me ideas of what they want to know about, which I love because it helps me build a really impactful, just, post, for anybody that's reading. So LinkedIn is a great way to contact me.

I also have Instagram, you know, Dr. Magan. I'm, an IF/THEN Ambassador, AAAS IF/THEN ambassador. I just finished it. There's some exciting news coming there too. So with that, though, there's a whole bunch of videos and just different, I would say, profile information if you want to learn more about where I grew up, my passion in science, my passion in STEM, my passion for diversity, inclusion, and equity and, and outreach and all that fun stuff.

When I met all the amazing IF/THEN ambassadors back in 2019 … and I came in there I was like, "I get 30 likes on LinkedIn." And I had like a couple hundred in my network. I thought I was living life in 2019. So I show up there and and I get sat down by these amazing women who are doing amazing things on the ambassador program. And after we had our intro session, we actually had a tornado warning. So they had to transfer all 120 women into shelter spaces. And so we were in the hotel in Dallas, Texas. We were where the the workers at the hotel would go in case of emergency. And so I had free cereal and everything is wicked cool. Anyway, so we sat there, and we're alerting and I got sat next to an amazing, she's a LinkedIn influencer. She's like the top voice of LinkedIn. This is a funny story about knowing your audience and stakeholders. And she sat down next to me, and she's just texting. I'm like, "Hi, I'm Magan, so great to meet you!" And she goes, "Hi. So tell me about yourself. Let me see your LinkedIn brand.” You know, how do you do it on LinkedIn? And while she was googling me, I'm like, “Oh, fantastic. I got 29 likes off the plane today. And like hundreds of my network.” And I go, you know, “How about you? What's your LinkedIn profile?” It was in the millions. She had millions of followers at the time. And she, I mean, I mean, she doesn't ever walk away from a post with less than 1000 likes on a post, right? And what she did is she inspired me. She sat down with me in that room for two hours. We looked at my profile, she goes, "Hey, you're a mom, you're a scientist, you're a leader, what is your vision? What do you want people to know from you? What do you want it? What change do you want to make?"

If I can just inspire one person or have that one idea... I love to work and collaborate with a team of amazing people across the world just to go get it and help strengthen very important topics, and feeding the growing population...innovation, diversity, inclusion and equity. I think that we're stronger together, rather than just me soloing it. And I just want to say, put a shout out on LinkedIn. If you have ideas, please send me a message because I am so passionate about giving back but also so passionate about growing and building together.

DU: Magan, thank you very much for your time. And also thank you for the work that you're doing to feed the world and also to grow the next generation of STEM leaders. Again, thank you.

DML: Thank you so much. And thanks, Dave. Let's do together! You know, I always have to end with this. My good friend, one of my mentees said, "Hey, Dr. Magan, it's not 2022 it's 2020-You!" And so to finish it off, you know everybody, go be your best version and enjoy 2020-You!

Dr. Jason “Jay” Mendoza on Selling A Vision

Dr. Jay Mendoza on reaching out to under-represented groups in cancer research.

Jay Mendoza is Director of the Office of Community Outreach and Engagement at Fred Hutchinson Cancer research Center

Dave Underhill: When I think of the progress that we've made in fighting cancer, I usually focus on the science: research labs; clinical trials; and breakthrough treatments. For Dr. Jay Mendoza, there's another question we need to ask as we measure success. How well are we working with minority and underserved populations to make sure that they're seeing the benefits of the research that's being done.

Jay is the Director of the Office of Community Outreach and Engagement at Fred Hutch Cancer Center. I worked with Jay as he was preparing a critical presentation to the National Cancer Institute. I was impressed by his passion, and by his commitment to serving communities in need. Jay, great seeing you again.

Jay Mendoza: Great to be here, Dave. Thanks for having me.

DU: Tell us about the Office of Community Outreach and Engagement and its mission.

JM: So the Office of Community Outreach and Engagement is one of the Fred Hutch’s external facing offices. And so we're very much about community. We're very much about making sure that the advances that the Fred Hutch discovers, that the research that the Fred Hutch does, extends to everybody in our region, and especially those that are underrepresented or underserved in our area.

DU: Great, when we met in 2018, OCOE was just getting started. And you were new to your role. Tell us about those early days. What did you do to engage people around your vision?

JM: I look back with a lot of fondness on those days. Those were very heady days. So we were very much like a startup that was a part of this big, big organization. And we had to basically not just establish ourselves, but also to really integrate ourselves in what was already a massive, well-oiled machine. And while we were doing that we also had to justify her ourselves, make sense in how we were expanding and why we were expanding.

At the beginning, there were just three of us working on things. And what we had to do was meet this expansive mission of the Fred Hutch. So as you know, the mission of the Fred Hutch and the UW Cancer Consortium is to eradicate cancer as the cause of suffering and death. That alone is like, of course, pretty monumental. And so where we come in, is to make sure that that mission is carried through for all people, especially in our catchment area. And for those that are sometimes left out of discoveries -left out of research and cancer care.

DU: Great, thanks. That's great. When we spoke in March, you were really excited about progress across a variety of different programs. Give us a couple of examples of things that you are really proud of.

JM: One of the things that we're very proud of is that we went from a three person office to having 15 to 20 people as part of the main building blocks of our office, and that we span more than just the Fred Hutch. We have faculty at the University of Washington, at Seattle Children's at the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance, and at the Fred Hutch. And I should say faculty and staff, not just faculty. We're able to work across these institutions, which have their own culture, which have their own standards and ways of doing things. We're able to bridge those, and to really work on initiatives that are for the betterment of the institutions, and also our shared catchment area, the populations that we all strive to serve.

Another area is the tremendous amounts of community support, engagement, and involvement with our office. So as you know we had a five year strategic planning initiative for the office. And instead of just being very insular and involving just us, the majority of people attended this strategic planning sessions were our community partners. And so they had a huge influence on our direction, on who were invited to the table and how we implemented the long range and short range vision for the office.

And then finally, probably as another show of community support, we're very proud that we were able to get external funding to support our office, above and beyond our existing and NCI funding. And so we were able to secure a multi-year gift from the Vadon Foundation. You know, of course, with the help of our philanthropy colleagues at the Fred Hutch. This was just a phenomenal process. And we are working to make that gift into a concrete show of our engagement with the community. So having the OCOE van, a mobile van, to bring our staff, to bring our materials, to bring studies to communities who otherwise may have a difficult time and engaging with the Fred Hutch/UW Cancer Consortium.

DU: That's great progress in really just a little more than three years.

JM: Right, exactly, we're absolutely thrilled. And each of these just helps us grow and grow and expand what we're doing.

DU: Great. So as you think about it, how has your communication as a leader evolved, as all this growth has occurred?

JM: We really had to set up a more structured, systematic way of doing things. But we also wanted to keep it less formal. We wanted to do away with formalities, because those can be barriers to the work that we do, especially when working with underserved communities. And so, we heavily leaned on the talents of our, our staff leaders, who are very well versed in making sure that our communications are both are systematic, but yet approachable, and very, very personable. Especially with our external partners. And so we have done our best to make sure that we still have opportunities for one-on-one meetings. But yet have scheduled group and interest group meetings for our burgeoning office, to make sure that we stay focused on our mission, and that each part of our office is able to ensure that they are focused on both their long-term and short-term goals as well.

DU: So there's lots of progress. You're building momentum. Let's talk about the future. What's next for OCOE?

JM: One of the biggest projects that we're working on is to consider expanding our catchment area. So right now, as you know, the Cancer Consortium catchment area is just Western Washington, 13 counties in Western Washington. And you know, it covers the majority of people in Washington State, about 5 million of the 7 million people who live in our great state. However, we had many others in the cancer consortium already do research and already take care of patients who are outside of the catchment area. I think this would go a long way in making sure that everybody in Washington State feels like the Fred Hutch, the UW Cancer Consortium, this is their place to go. Like this is our home Cancer Center.

DU: Yeah, that's great. You know, it seems like it's continuing to put the vision into reality. Very inspirational. So as you think about moving forward with the vision and as a leader, based on what you’ve learned so far, and what you see coming in the future, what advice would you have for other leaders who face the challenge of engaging diverse stakeholder groups around their vision?

JM: It's a great question. I think a lot of healthcare and research institutions are trying to figure that out. And one thing that I will say is that nurturing relationships with under underserved communities must happen. And it can't happen in an emergency basis. It can't happen because we're in the middle of a pandemic. It needs to happen now, so that we can be ready for a future pandemic or epidemic. And so I think leaders should prioritize that. And not necessarily expect its efforts to be needed or to pay off right away. I think there can be a short-term outlook like, well, nothing's happened in two or three years. So why do we do this? And I think that's like the wrong perspective to take. You know, the better perspective would be that boy, you know, we really need to build these relationships now, because, undoubtedly, something, something big and perilous will occur. And that's when having very strong relationships, that's when having trust, that's what all of that will pay off.

DU: So Jay, I want to thank you again for your time, but also very much thank you for sharing the stories, of the important work that all of you are doing. So very much appreciated.

JM: Thank you, Dave. And it was it was really wonderful working with you.

Yomassage founders discover the keys to pitching their ideas to a global audience.

Yomassage founders Katherine Parker and Tiffany Ryan discuss pitching to global audiences.

Interview Transcript. Edited for clarity.

Dave Underhill: The COVID pandemic has all of us looking for ways to manage our stress and stay healthy. Today we're going to talk with a fast-growing Portland startup, Yomassage, and learn how they're offering a unique wellness program that combines yoga, massage, and other relaxation techniques to people across the globe.

I met the two founders, Katherine Parker, and Tiffany Ryan as they were preparing for a pitch to international investors. I was impressed by their story and by their passion. Katherine, Tiffany, it’s great to see you again, and welcome.

Tiffany Ryan/Katherine Parker: Thank you.

DU: So tell us a bit about Yomassage. What is it that you do, and I think more importantly, what inspired you to start the company?

KP: So Yomassage is a massage modality. But we combine three different things. We combine restorative yoga, massage therapy and mindfulness into one session. And this allows us to do several things. It allows us to provide three-in-one so we can do more at once for our clients. And then it also allows us the possibility to work with people in a group setting. So it brings the price down because we can work with five people at once instead of one person at a time. So we're providing a lot more value than you would be getting by just going to a yoga class or just going to a massage or just doing a meditation.

We started this out of my yoga studio. I used to own a yoga studio here in Portland and we created it as a class just to have it in my yoga studio. The demand was so high and people loved it so much that we decided to turn it into a training. Now we run a full on company around it.

DU: That's great. So you started, from my reading and research, you started in September of 2018. Where's the company at, at this point?

TR: The fall of 2018, we had a couple of very small trainings. We bootstrapped everything. It was just kind of let's see if there's some interest out there around this. Then that following spring, we were actually picked up by an industry magazine and put on their cover. They had a big spread on us and we just kind of took off from there. All of 2019 we did in-person trainings. We trained over 350 people that year. And then we launched our virtual training at the end of 2019. That was amazing because we were set before COVID with our virtual trainings. We've trained now a total of roughly 750 therapists around the world. We're now focused not only on individuals, but on also having Yomassage in places like hospitals and senior centers and gyms and resorts.

DU: You recently had a chance to fly to Dubai, and pitch to a group of international investors. Tell us about that experience. And how did that come about?

KP: So we yes, we do have therapists all over the world. We we mostly focus on training therapists in the United States. But through our virtual training, we've had some traction in the UK, Canada - Australia is really big for Yomassage. They're really loving it there. But through an organization here in Portland called TiE - we have been involved with them for probably over a year just practicing our pitching. And they've been really great mentors to us. We were at a pitch competition at the end of 2020 - their women's pitch competition. We won first place in the pitch competition, so they sent us to Dubai to pitch in the global pitch competition. And we got to meet women running amazing, incredible companies all over the world. So yeah, that that was our experience in Dubai.

DU: So and that sounds like it was really exciting to be able to fly there, meet all those people. What was your takeaway from that experience about pitching in a high stakes competitive situation like that?

TR:  It was really interesting. It was a unique experience because it was global, so you weren't just pitching against people from the United States. There are different styles of pitching from the different cultures and countries. And we had judges that were global as well. We had only pitched virtually up until then because we had just been pitching during COVID. So this was our first in-person pitching experience. The big takeaway is the preparation piece, which you helped us with quite a bit. Just being able to feel really confident and being able to deliver your message succinctly. And with as much impact as possible.

DU: Okay. And some of your advice to other entrepreneurs about pitching is being concise, get to the point. Anything else that you think would be important for entrepreneurs to understand about pitching?

TR: We had our pitch all set to go. We were ready. We refined it. We were good. Then we had a rooftop party, the night before the pitches with a bunch of investors. So we're basically doing our quick pitching, just in conversation. I think one of the things I realized that I wish we had done slightly differently is just bringing the passion and just be really genuine. “Why are you doing this and why is it important?” Because when you have conversation, it's easy to convey that. And I think sometimes in the pitching structure, when it's like this slide, and that slide, and all the things you have to have, some of that (passion) can be slightly taken away. And I think that's something we saw in a lot of the other pitches as well. The people who were like, very passionate about what they were doing, everybody felt it and it makes for a stronger pitch.

KP: Yeah, I think just being really prepared, obviously, is going to help you. If there are judges or you're in front of investors, everyone's going to interpret something different or ask a different question. Or maybe this person really hates that you did one thing and this person really loves it. So just be open- minded and don't take things too personally. It really just depends who you're pitching to. And you just have to move forward and don't get too down on yourself.

DU: That's great. You just learned by doing. You mentioned earlier that almost all your pitches, because of COVID, before this had been virtual ones. We're all living in this Zoom world of virtual communication. Prior to Dubai, and continuing after that, what have you done to adapt your pitches to that virtual environment?

TR: That's really all we knew in terms of our pitching. So I think that's how we started out and we were able to I think of things much more scripted, virtually. It’s a different type of preparation to deliver something virtually then than in person.

KP: In Dubai, there were virtual pitches. There were some people that weren't able to come in person. I would say it didn't really matter, like the virtual pitches were still amazing. One or two of the virtual pitches made it to the finals and one of them won second place in the competition. So it didn't really matter, the virtual pitches still did really well.

DU: That's good to know. And I think, as you're experiencing, we all know that virtual is going to be with us for a long time. It's going to be a combination of in-person and virtual pitches as you grow your business. So that makes a lot of sense.

KP: I think that with COVID - we talked about this a lot, but it's like we don't just do phone calls anymore. Like no one just does a phone call. It's always Zoom now. So it kind of brings us together because we're not talking. We're never meeting people in person with our business. We're not really a Portland only business. We work with people all over the country and all over the world. And now it's like we never get on a phone call. It's always Zoom.

DU: That does change things, right? It's almost like the if you really want to get someone's attention you actually call them on the phone because they're so used to doing Zoom calls.

TR: Catch them off guard.

DU: It's kind of funny that way. So it sounds like you've had some great success to date. What's next for the company, for Yomassage? What are your plans for the next 12 to 18 months?

TR: Originally, we had wanted to focus on gyms and spas and we're realizing that with the state of COVID that's probably not the best place to start right now. So we've shifted more towards hospitals, and assisted living senior centers, places like that, where there has been this renewed awareness of the need for touch among the communities. So that's what we're focused on in terms of our enterprise. We're still working on increasing our brand awareness among individual practitioners. We have several things in the works to be able to do that with some key players in the massage industry, some strategic partnerships. And increasing our bandwidth for marketing and SEO and all that good stuff. We do have one new initiative that we're launching this year and new training as well.

DU: That's great. Anything else?